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charlieh@empmtg.com
1/5/2010
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Heat: Hydronic or not Hydronic
Hi Ken,
Avid reader of your blogs.....because of you, i have installed AIS, upgraded all my electronics, started to get my HAM license for my SSB, learning to use the Pactor Modem and vowed to take my boat longer and farther next summer than ever before.....Your getting expensive! But thanks for pushing us all....
While I am not yet a Norhavn owner, I do own a 2001 GB42 that is perfect for the chesapeake bay area, and my young kids.
I am debating installing a better heating system on my boat. My limited research has me looking at a Webasto DBW 2010 Coolant Heater (Hydronic). My goal is to extend both the spring and fall cruising seasons on the bay. We kept the boat in until end of november and had a few nights on the hook at 25F, which made my wife have 2nd thoughts about cold weather criusing....
What are your thoughts on marine heating sytems: Pros, cons, options, etc.... I realize your boat and mine are vastly different in everyway, but I am curious about your views.....i know what they are when it comes to A/C!!
Thanks and take care
Charlie
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Ellard, David
1/11/2010
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| Ken and Charlie,
I live in Seattle. I have the Webasto 2010 diesel heating system on my 43 Tollycraft. It is just barely enough btu even though 40,000 seems like a lot. Reason I did not install the 2020 is space restrictions.
I have been the Project Manager for installations of many of the 2020 Webasto in other boats. In your size of boat, the 2020 is not an overkill. Yes, the 2020 is slightly arger in size and will burn a slightly more amount of fuel. However, upside is that the 2020 will not have to run as much to keep the hot water temps up. The 2010 may burn more fuel than the 2020 to keep up.
Extra cost on 2020 over the 2010 is hardly worth discussing. You still have to buy all the related components such as fan heaters, switches, thermostats, filters, heater hoses (about 175 to 200 feet), fuel hoses, shut off valves, zone valves, supply and return manifolds, wiring (perhaps 200 feet), battery cables, fuses, and so on.
Not adding the everhot tank is a mistake. This will provide unlimited hot water for showers, etc.as long as there is fresh water and the furnace runs. It will provide about 160 degree hot water constantly.
Another great option is to add heat exchangers off of the main engines to heat up the furnace hot water. Only the hot water circulation pump runs. You will not burn fuel. This will add cost, but worth it.
Every fan heater you install consumes btu heat. Normal size fan heaters consume up to 7000 btu each. Every foot of heater hose creates a loss of btu.
Having 10 fan heaters in this size of boat is not an overkill. Yes, the ones for the heads are 1/2 the btu of the ones you install in the staterooms and salon. Because of the layout of this type of boat, you will regret not having 2 fan heaters in the salon. One aft and one forward.
Labor is the most expensive p0rtion of the overall cost to do this after the boat has been built. You have to plan where and how to install each fan heater AND fresh air intake to each one. You have to plan all of the hose routings to the fan heaters and then back to the furnace. Plus, all of the wiring.
Whenever a client asks me how much to install a hot water system, the above issues must be discussed. It is usually about 35 percent parts and the rest labor. Going back in later to upgrade the system is a waste of money. Using an installer who has done this type of install many times will save you a bunch of labor expenses. Degree of difficulty will add costs.
Budget around $12,000 for a good system and professionally installed. There are options and other issues that may increase the costs to $15,000. Make sure whomever you select to do the work is factory trained and has references. Secondly, talk to other boat owners to get their feedback on who did the work and the results. An estimate is just an estimate. Get the estimate and detailed terms in writing including all parts. Allow a 10 percent overrun. If something comes up, talk about it before it is done. Gettting a fixed price causes shortcuts and low grade work sometimes.. Allow for Mr. Murphy to show up. He normally does.
Before anything is done, go over every location for the fan heaters, where all of the other components will be mounted by the installer(s). You will lose some storage space. Discuss where the furnace overboard exhaust outlet will be installed. Will it conflict with something else? Consider the noise factor when the furnace is running. Consider future servicing of the furnace and all other components.
Hope this helps,
David Ellard
Seattle
Trust me, this is not something you should try to do on your own.
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Williams, Ken
1/10/2010
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| Charlie:
My apologies for making you spend all the money! Oops...
Also.. my apologies for taking so long to respond to this posting. Somehow I missed it.
As to heating systems...
I looked at the specs on the unit you are looking at. 40,000 BTUs! That should have the boat toasty at all times. It says that it uses .4 gallons / hour. My guess is that your actual consumption will be much less, as once the boat is warmed up, it will cycle on and off.
We had a small heater like this on our 28' power cat, and loved it. We were never cold, and used almost no fuel.
I'm not sure what it would cost to install...
-Ken W
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charlieh@empmtg.com
1/5/2010
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| Hi Ken,
Avid reader of your blogs.....becuase of you, i have installed AIS, upgraded all my electronics, started to get my HAM license for my SSB, learning to use the Pactor Modem and vowed to take my boat longer and farther next summer than ever before.....Your getting expensive! But thanks for pushing us all....
While I am not yet a Norhavn owner, I do own a 2001 GB42 that is perfect for the chesapeake bay area, and my young kids.
I am debating installing a better heating system on my boat. My limited research has me looking at a Webasto DBW 2010 Coolant Heater (Hydronic). My goal is to extend both the spring and fall cruising seasons on the bay. We kept the boat in until end of november and had a few nights on the hook at 25F, which made my wife have 2nd thoughts about cold weather criusing....
What are your thoughts on marine heating sytems: Pros, cons, options, etc.... I realize your boat and mine are vastly different in everyway, but I am curious about your views.....i know what they are when it comes to A/C!!
Thanks and take care
Charlie | | |
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